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Battletoads in Battlemaniacs

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Rdannylor2
Posted: 12 Dec, 2013 20:24
Last Edit: 24 Dec, 2018 17:03
Official Topic Post for discussion about
Created 12 Dec, 2013 20:24 by


1. Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (USA).sfc
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (U) [!].sfc
sns-nx-0.u1
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2. Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (Europe).sfc
Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (E) [!].sfc
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3. Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (U) [f1].sfc
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4. Battletoads in Battlemaniacs (U) [T+Rus_Shedevr].sfc
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5. Battletoads in the Battlemaniacs MSU1 Fix Kurrono, Conn-btbm_msu1.sfc
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Resources:
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HigorHuannHardCore
Posted: 16 Dec, 2016 17:01
What kind of sick joke are these:


Some people have not even been able to beat the game let alone finishing without loosing a life!
I See only two people got those achievements, one of them is famous for cheating and has even been banned for that. Even with save states is barely working... i vote for demotion, this achievements are asking for too much!

FlamingRok
Posted: 16 Dec, 2016 22:54


Battletoads is not an easy game, these achievements are valued well and the game isn't particularly long. "Some people have not even been able to beat the game" is not an excuse for this achievement to be removed, that'd be saying to remove a deathless run of Kirby if it existed, despite it being much easier than this game. Because some people have not even been able to beat Kirby doesn't mean it should affect everyone.

You need to understand that Battletoads as a series has been recognized as a brutally difficult series from the get-go, and achievements like these are meant to drive that point home. Only the most hardcore and dedicated to this game can get these high pointer achievements. Your request to remove these achievements feels even more out of place than your request to remove the one from Sparkster to be honest. C'mon, not every game needs to be easy and at your pace.

HigorHuannHardCore
Posted: 16 Dec, 2016 23:16
I assume you can do it. can you?

FlamingRok
Posted: 16 Dec, 2016 23:51
Last Edit: 16 Dec, 2016 23:51
There's a concept called talking for other people. This is exactly what I'm doing. Incidentally, if I truly felt inclined enough to try and playthrough Battletoads in Battlemaniacs without dying, it would take a long time, that much is true. However, just like any other game that you become extremely skilled at, with a lot of devotion and effort into the game, you can do it. Tetris the Grandmaster is an extreme, but plausible example here. Yes, only six documented people in the world have achieved Grandmaster status in Tetris the Grandmaster 3, but they did it because they are extremely dedicated to the game, and due to their dedication, they gained skill far beyond what normal people accomplish.

What's ironic is you complaining about these types of achievements like no death, but then you have absolutely no problems with no damage achievements like the Mega Man series, which is fine, but it begs the question as to what your expectations are. For example, this achievement:



Mega Man 2 feels somewhat shoddy in design by itself in terms of the bosses, but this boss in particular always felt the most cheap to me. Needing an exact amount of ammo for this boss always bugged me, and the way they shoot at you feels unfair, dare I say moreso than anything I saw in the NES Battletoads (not counting achievements). Most people who try it resort to an oversight in the programming which is pausing to phase out of the path of the bullets, and when you're forced to resort to a programming oversight to reliably beat a boss, that's a sign of a poorly designed boss. I'm not even mocking the achievement itself, as the concept is fine, but the boss ruins it.

I could rattle off a bunch of other examples, but I'm sure you get the point.

DonCosmo
Posted: 17 Dec, 2016 03:03
Just because few have done it does not mean it is too hard to be relevant. Uhg everyone is requesting to remove the challlenge from too many titles these days. I am going to attempt that games just out of spite. Can't give a time frame but I need to prove the point I guess.

Ryan914
Posted: 17 Dec, 2016 16:54
Can't blame you Don, but when you find out WHY it is so hard you will agree. I mean there is a line between Feasible and extremely implausible. You can finish the game without losing a life, but it requires a ton of practice to pull off, or you have very steady nerves and can handle the pressure much more easily than others can.

DonCosmo
Posted: 18 Dec, 2016 02:12
I just smoke a lot of pot.

matheus2653
Posted: 29 Dec, 2016 18:35
Last Edit: 29 Dec, 2016 18:36
Battletoads is a really tough series, although the battlemaniacs have fewer stages than the original, it's still extremely difficult, it's one of the most difficult games on Super Nintendo, and finish that without dying can be very frustrating to do, only one got it honestly (I think), But instead of removing it, it could decrease the difficulty a bit, like "finish the game without using continue", done!! This is a much better challenge for this game, still difficult, but it is not a type of achievement that only one person could achieve, and many more people would try to do it.

DonCosmo
Posted: 29 Dec, 2016 21:30
Well I can confirm that my first two goes at these have resulted in little more than creative profanity.

BerserkerBR
Posted: 30 Dec, 2016 01:16
I also vote for demoting it. this site is already losing its credibility for the high number of cheaters, and now people are even making achievements for them....people should have in mind that when a achievement is made at least the developer should be able to actually achieve it himself....

MGNS8M
Posted: 30 Dec, 2016 03:57
Hmm... well, I understand what you're saying about that much Berserker, but I was told specifically that I should never hold back on making achievements that are too hard for me. There are plenty of achievements I've made that I absolutely cannot get, but I made them because I was told *someone* would eventually be able to get them, and if not ... you'd just come back and simplify it later if it's REALLY a problem.

There have been two main times when I simplified achievements that were "too hard" - one was recent, and I did it because on-my-own, I saw that no one was getting it, and it was absurdly difficult anyway. The other one, I was pressured by a few people to change it even though OTHERs already got it, and I-myself got it on my first try. That one I kind of regret. Sometimes I feel like people expect to be able to fully-win every achievement-set they attempt, and they want it made easier if they personally can't 200% it. Yeah, there are cheaters, but that doesn't mean every player who has the achievement is a cheater for having got it, and it kind of diminishes the effort they put into it originally to make it easier for someone else afterward.

Maybe at the very least, more 'unique' achievements can be made to throw-off cheaters ... but at the same time, some people complain that those 'unique achievements' aren't good just because there's no in-game reward for doing them(usually when they can't get it, otherwise they like them). There's always someone who's upset no matter which way it goes.

Obviously there's a balance to things, and there's never going to be one answer for every single game/situation. But at the very least a developer should be flexible enough to tone things down at least a little if the community as-a-whole thinks it's too much. But at the same time it's not good for a developer to be pressured into making any achievement easier just because a few people can't get it when others can.

This game, I don't know about it as much as I know the legacy of the NES original, but I can only assume it's exceedingly difficult. Me personally, I just avoid a set when I know it has massively disproportionate difficulty like that. After a while, sets that sit empty for being too difficult might eventually get changed. I just really think it should never become a practice to force them to change just at-a-glance.

Barely 2 players out of 200 players IS pretty absurd, though. I see the developer got one of them by why of savestate, but not the other. I think Matheus' idea of just making it 'don't use a continue' would be a good call, unless maybe one or two legitimate players actually get it.

DonCosmo
Posted: 30 Dec, 2016 04:24
Try working your ass off to get some of these so called impossible achievements, told you cheated, and then having it eventually removed thus creating nothing but a waste of your time. Good times.

matheus2653
Posted: 30 Dec, 2016 09:45
Last Edit: 30 Dec, 2016 09:51
I don't find the achievements impossible, but very, very annoying, finishing the first two stages without dying is OK, but already in the third phase onwards, the game becomes a "one hit kill" game, anything can kill you, any Failure, bye bye achievement, and when it's not "one hit kill," touch on anything takes half of your life, even if you decorating the entire game, is still very difficult to do this, even the most professional players have problems to simply finish this game, but like I said, don't need remove the achievements, just change to a challenge more Appropriate as "finish the game without using continue", several people would try this than to finish THAT game without ever dying.

HippopotamusRex
Posted: 30 Dec, 2016 10:53
I was having a go at this game a few months back maybe I'll do it again. I stopped at the Clinger Winger ripoff stage because I was using (and am still using) a busted-ass ps2 controller with a usb. The turns were too precise, so I ended up needing to configure the d-pad to the keyboard every time I hit that stage. Granted it works to get through stage 5 over using a controller, I just kind of burnt out going from controller to keyboard and then back to controller after failing stage 5.

That said I don't mind these for Battletoads because Battletoads already has a reputation of being insane. If something this difficult was in SMW, then it would seem more out of place.

The way the later stages work are based off memorization, and you die so many times learning to do them that you know how to fully execute the hell out of them by the time you pass them. And your mastery only increases as you fail the further stages and learn the ones you can already execute better. So right now I may not be good at stage 5, but when I can finally put everything together and do it, then I fall on my face on stage 6, those stage 6 attempts are going to iron out my stage 5.

So really the biggest hurdle for a no death will be stage 6, because there's no stage 7 to force you to iron out your mastery of stage 6. But playing stage 6 assumes you did it for 1-5.
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